On this week’s episode, we talked to Chris Wallace about scaling the best of your frontline employee’s knowledge, experience and expertise all the way up to the executive suite so that your company can make the most of it.
And we did it live! Check out their beautiful faces below:
About Chris Wallace
Chris is the Co-Founder and President of InnerView, a marketing consulting firm that helps companies align their brand and product stories with their customer-facing teams. At InnerView, Chris and his team have developed the breakthrough Brand Transfer Study tool, which helps companies measure brand message alignment and engage their frontlines in innovative new ways.
Chris has expertise across a range of industries, all with a common thread of being large consumer-focused businesses, including consumer products, manufacturing, cable and telecommunications, banking and luxury goods.
Beyond his work with clients, Chris is able to apply his passions as a teacher and thought leader. He has taught as an adjunct MBA professor at Temple’s Fox School of Business and has been published in outlets such as Harvard Business Review and Ad Age. Chris is also a frequent contributor to the Forbes Agency Council.
Chris received a B.A. in Public Relations from Syracuse University’s Newhouse School and an MBA from Temple University. He lives outside Philadelphia with his family.
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About Voices of CX Podcast
The Voices of CX Podcast is a podcast that covers all things business strategies, customer decision insight, empathetic leadership practices, and tips for sustainable profitability. With a little bit of geeking out on behavioral science, A.I. and other innovation sprinkled in here and there. The guests span multiple industries, but all of them have years of experience to bring to the table.
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Mary: Welcome to Voices of CX season eight, as usual, bringing you the very best thought leaders, practitioners and, academics all in one place. Our goal is to make your job easier by providing you with the tools and inspiration that you need to lead through empathy. one new idea at a time.
Hello to our listeners and viewers, we are back for one more episode of Voices of Customer Experience podcast and today. Season eight, I am joined by Christopher Wallace. Christopher, I’m going to do you go by Christopher Chris. Chris, I’m guessing
Chris: You can use Chris. That’s fine.
Mary: I’ll use Chris. OK,
Chris: Use Christopher if I’m in trouble.
Mary: Chris Wallace, who is not in trouble today. Chris, I’m going to let you tell our people, our listeners and viewers a little bit about yourself. About what you do and what makes you really passionate about, I mean, the name of this podcast, which is, you know, customer experience, take it away.
What Chris Wallace is passionate about
Chris: For sure. So, I always like to start by saying I’m somewhat of an accidental entrepreneur. I was not one of those people that strove to be in a small business owner or to go, innovate and run my own company. But my background is working with larger brands, so working with larger consumer brands and through that experience, mostly on the sales side.
I got to walk a mile in the shoes of the people who were out there. You know, you’ll hear me talk about the phrase front lines a lot, but out on the front lines talking to customer serving customers. And I had hit a point in my career right opportunity to make a little bit of a pivot. I started working with an organization, large organization that was launching a lot of new products and services.
And I found myself in a spot where I was the only person in this massive company whose job it was to figure out how to take all these new products and services and equip tens of thousands of people to talk about to really tell the story of these new products in an effective way.
I found myself in a lot of call centers and a lot of retail stores, and a lot of, you know, really a lot of frontline locations talking to people and listening to them and to talk about why I’m so passionate about customer experiences.
I’ve sat next to these folks. I put headsets on and listened to them talking to customers, and the level of pride that they have in serving a customer well is off the charts. Most people perceive it to be the opposite that they don’t really care and things like that. It’s really not the case.
The people that I’ve interacted with, you know, and like I said, we’re well into the tens and probably into the hundreds of thousands of frontline employees we’ve worked with, but our passion is really about putting them in a position to succeed, right, putting them in a position to deliver an experience that is going to make the customer feel good. Because if the customer feels good, they feel good about the work they’re doing. When you hear the word engagement, that’s what we think of as engagement. It’s you feel good about the work that you’re doing.
You feel like you delivered a good service. And you feel like you’re delivered well for your customers. You did right by them. We think that’s what most people care about. Most employees care about. We want to put them in a position to do that better.
So, when we started InnnerView, InnerView now is a little over four years old, and our mission is really to help drive belief, confidence, and pride in those frontline teams. And one of the things that we want to drive belief, confidence, and pride in is the customer experience that they deliver.
Mary: That’s great. Well, you know, there are, I don’t mean to say this in a bad way, it’s actually very, very positive at this point in the market. But there are a lot of companies out there that are focused on improving customer experience to some degree, what is it that you feel sets InnerView apart that makes you special, that makes you really bring an extra bit of value, let’s say, to your customers.
Chris: Well, I’m going to use your phrase and not say that it’s a bad thing, but we’re very, our focus is very niche. We really are. We have a very targeted focus with the work that we do, and we look at that and focus as we look at where the employee, the frontline experience, and the customer experience overlap.
Right. We look at the point where, you know, employee experience is about many more things than just showing up and serving the customer. It’s about pay. About training. It’s about a lot of different things we look at.
We specifically look at the interactions between the frontline teams and the customers, and we look at ways to optimize those interactions. The human-to-human contact, especially, we’ve learned this over the last couple of years, it’s precious, right?
It’s a precious opportunity for a brand to make a really big impression on a customer, on a consumer. So, we help organizations really understand what is happening at that moment of truth. Right. What are the perceptions of the people on both sides of that equation?
Most organizations measure what’s happening on the customer’s side of what they think. But what we add into the equation is understanding what the attitudes and perceptions are of the people serving the customers so we can kind of get inside both of their heads to ensure that we are influencing that interaction the best that we possibly can. And that the outcome ultimately is a good experience for the customer.
Mary: Mm-Hmm. Yeah, that’s really great because they’re really, there’s such a richness of knowledge with these individuals that sometimes never gets scaled up to the decision makers and all that knowledge about so many different aspects of the experience that could be making or breaking the customer journey. It just never scales up.
So, I think it’s really, really great that you guys set out to solve this issue. Now, was there like a moment of truth or I don’t know, a lightning struck that made you have the idea to start this company and solve that specific need of the market?
Chris: There actually is. There are a couple of lightning strike moments kind of throughout my journey as an entrepreneur. But to your question, there definitely was. My business partner and I founded a previous firm, which we merged with a company out of Chicago, and we were part of that organization for a couple of years. It wasn’t going in the direction that we wanted it to. And we decided that we decided we’d run our course and we were going to walk away and determine what to do next.
And when we had the opportunity, literally had a duel. We had the opportunity to step away and determine what we wanted to do going forward. And we, my partner and I, took time and it is so key we spent the time with a whiteboard in our ideas. No pressure on us. No client work to do. We didn’t have any clients yet, but we took the time to think about all the work we had done in the past. All the people that we had served and all the really where the success was, and we really triangulated who we like working with.
Where do we have the most success? What do those things have in common? And we looked at the elements of those things and we really put it together to form InnerView. And it really was this idea of the we identified that the brand, the marketing and the customer experience teams were the ones that were really suffering from a disconnect with their frontline channels, right?
This idea of in the past we were focused more on the sales side of things. We’re focused more on targeting sales leadership and things like that. But it wasn’t sales leadership that felt the pain of a disconnect between your vision for your brand and your customer experience and what was actually happening. It wasn’t sales that felt that problem. It was really felt the pain of that, it was the marketing and the brand and the CX folks. So, when we built InnerView, it was really built to serve those audiences and really help them primarily better understand what is happening in the trenches.
And it was during that process that we decided that we’re going to start InnerView. We were going to be a data driven company. We’re going to follow data. We weren’t going to go on hunches. We weren’t going to go and do focus groups.
And we developed a tool called the Brand Transfer Study in partnership with another organization. We built the Brand Transfer Study to really give marketers and CX leaders a glimpse into what is happening out there in the trenches so they could be better informed. Like you said, scale up that frontline feedback because there’s gold there, but most organizations don’t go mining for it.
Mary: Yeah, I mean, you’re absolutely right. Now this focus on the human element, it doesn’t seem to be so mysterious. So, a lot of people struggle with this disconnect that companies have not only with their frontline employees, but with customers. What do you think is, you know, in all these years doing the job that you do, what have you found to be the main reason that the communication is broken?
Chris: So, I think that the short answer is most organizations focus on when you talk about communication, you talk about equipping people to deliver an experience. Experience is a fluid concept. It’s an emotional concept, right? Customer experience is a very emotional thing.
So, we look at what organizations are doing and organizations are so focused on distributing facts and information, and they’re in the knowledge business. And the traditional communication has always been, we’re going to give you a set of facts, whether that’s through training or product sheets or ebooks or whatever video series, whatever the case may be.
So, much of the focus and organizations, especially large organizations, is here are the facts, we expect that you will take these facts, weave them together and use them in your interactions with customers, and that you will be driven by that knowledge and driven by those facts.
And we just don’t think that’s enough. We don’t think that facts are enough. We think that organizations need to take that further step and really help turn their people into storytellers. And probably even before they’re storytellers, they need to convince their own people of the story before you’re going to retell it.
You need to be convinced that it’s a good story in the first place. So, we look at this so much, and our approach is based on this idea of don’t tell them what to do and give them facts and tell them to regurgitate them, sell them on the story. Because if they’re sold, you’re going to have no problem getting them to retell what you want them to tell, or to deliver the experience that you want them to deliver because they will feel like they’re part of it and they will be passionate about it.
Most organizations stop short of selling that vision and selling the idea to their people. They just focus on distributing facts. So, we see that is the biggest disconnect is knowledge is only going to get you to one point you to really push to the point where people believe in the story, then they’re going to tell it day in and day out consistently.
Mary: Yeah. So how much of InnerView’s process involves actually using this knowledge to execute a project that will provide a solution? So, what are the steps that you take? Do you just collect that information? Spread it across the organization? Do you train people with that knowledge that you’ve acquired with that data that you’ve acquired? Do you just fill out a report? Tell me a little bit how it works.
Chris: So why don’t I take you through an example? I’ll take you through a specific example a company kind of end to end. We worked with a large national pest control grant, OK. Part of it, part of an organization most people would know, most consumers would know. And the approach that we took was this; they had their customer experience is actually quite good. It was. They had a good customer experience and they didn’t know why; they had a great recipe, but they didn’t know what the ingredients were, right?
They had a great end product, but they didn’t know what the ingredients were. So they wanted to know what the ingredients were. So, we came in and we ran a Brand Transfer Study. And the goal of the Brand Transfer Study was to take this well, we’re good because we’re good, and start to bring more definition as to what are the building blocks of that customer experience. What are the things they are doing that are making their brand stand out and drive their customer satisfaction scores up to industry, you know, truly industry standard or past industry standard? And we ran the brand transfer study and we heard them we listened to the frontline teams.
We asked the people who ride in the technician trucks. The people answer phone in the call centers, work in the branches. What do you think makes your customer experience special and unique? We took that information.We have hard data to say: here are all the things that they could say you’re good at. Here are the things they actually say you’re good at. We isolate those things and we start to paint a picture of how do they perceive the brand?
What do they perceive to be the strengths and weaknesses of their brand? And we’re able to give that organization a platform, you know, a messaging structure to say here is why they believe you’re so good. Let’s take that construct and let’s remind them why they are good.
Over, and over, and over, and over again, because one, you’re reinforcing positive behavior. And for the people that aren’t exhibiting that behavior as frequently, you’re reminding them of what they should be doing. So, it becomes this kind of self-reinforcing loop, but without the data to understand what were the components that made this customer experience,
And I’m talking about granular details of the customer experience, how they behave in certain aspects of the customer journey, things like that. We were able to come back to them and paint them this picture of this is why your people believe you are selling out the marketplace.
So we went back out with, you asked do we train? We don’t say what we do is training – we look at it as a campaign. So we gather data on our audience, we use that data, we build a messaging structure and then we market to the people inside the organization.
We market the message to them. It’s an influence based strategy. We’re trying to grab their attention and compel them to listen, compel them to watch and get them to choose to want to take next steps. Choose to change behavior, not be forced to. We think it’s just a more compelling process. And ultimately, at the end of that, we find that not only do people feel better about the organization they work for, but a couple other things happen. One, their customer experience, their great customer experience scores get better, so they deliver a better customer experience because they were reinforced.
They were, we did the reinforcement process of what made them so good in the first place. They sell more and they stay longer. So, at the end of a process like this, it really becomes something that not only does it feel really good, but it’s easy to measure as well.
Mary: That’s really great. Now your client InnerView, clients are primarily enterprise organizations, right? So, I imagine that inevitably you encounter a lot of decision makers who are not convinced of the value of investing in any sort of customer experience efforts because, you know, this is something, you know, this is our industry and we know that it happens.
How do you convince them or what is your personal belief as to that value that it brings? And what’s the easiest way or the easiest storytelling, let’s say, since you brought that up to get that message across of the importance of it, why it’s so critical to organizations to have these channels and these ways of listening to customer experience?
Chris: Well, I think that the, I’ll start by saying that consumers have changed their needs and adjusted their needs and preferences faster than organizations have adjusted to the customers. And what I mean by that is we all have statistic after statistic that says that customer experience has overtaken product and price as the most important purchase decision and that, you know, consumers are willing to pay up to 40% more for a better customer experience. We have all those stats. But corporate leaders aren’t convinced, and I think that the reason that they’re not convinced is there’s this sense that it really is a feel-good approach.
It is not a hard tangible thing that you’re going to be able to measure. And my argument back to that and the argument that we make to organizations is it can be. It all depends on what aspect of customer experience you choose to focus on, right?
So, we do some work with companies that are in the customer experience measurement business, the path from. Organizations recognizing we need to measure our customer experience, whether it’s through NPS or Net Promoter Score or customer satisfaction or something like that.
The path from we’re going to measure it to, we’re going to be better and we’re going to be able to see ROI from it is a long pass. It is a long journey. So, if that’s where you’re starting, and that’s your perception of customer experience, it can be a very long path. I’m not saying they shouldn’t do those things, because they should and they need to. But it’s harder for them to measure that quarter to quarter and maybe even year to year. Those become multi-year investments.
So, I think the way that, you know, my organization positions it is, we try to focus more on smaller, incremental and probably even more timely aspects of the customer experience. It could be a new product launch, it could be a it could be a rebrand, it could be a new marketing campaign or a new promotion that you’re running. Every single one of those things, every one of those messages impacts your customer experience. So, we look at it as rather than try to for lack of a better phrase, swallow the elephant hole and take on every single aspect of customer experience from scratch, right?
Like the measurement piece. Focus on how you can be driving the right customer experience and sort of micro increments and be able to measure that and see the improvement from one product launch to the next or one campaign to the next. And then you start to see wait a second, these investments really pay off. If you try to do too much at once, it’s just going to feel like a lot of cost and not a lot of return. But if you start smaller, you’re going to see the needle move a little quicker.
Mary: Hmm. That’s great. And what are your points of view regarding these organizations that, like you said, they understand that they need to measure their customer experience so they create a tracking program, something some sort of survey to be able to speak to their customer, and then they extract that feedback. They create metrics around it and then it ends there. What happens?
Chris: So again, CX is a commitment. I mean, for anything, for your listeners, I know that you’re, you know, you’re talking about, know customer experience insights from episode to episode. But you know, I’ll try to be in the straight talk camp here and say it’s a real commitment, right? It is. The demand is here. I mentioned that earlier, consumers need this. They want this. It is truly how brands are going to stand out.
And just like any other brand initiative, there’s an element of faith that goes into the investments you make early on. Right? You don’t know when you go through a rebranding exercise, you get that logo design or you redesign your website, you don’t know that the investment is going to pay off in the first 60 or 90 days, right? There is an element of faith of we know that this is the right thing to do. You know, myself, three years in the future is going to thank me for doing this.
There’s an element of that with CX. So, I’m not going to paint a picture of everything is going to be super tangible and measurable right away, but we know that it’s what the customer is demanding. And I think when you start to look at the buying habits and the fact that not only can, you know, can consumers access products more quickly, but the sources from which they can access products has grown exponentially.
Customers have no problem finding product and being available is another thing, but they don’t have a problem finding products that are going to suit their needs. They have plenty of choices. There are plenty of substitutes, so you have to stand out for another reason.
They can’t just be, oh we’ve got the best product. Nobody can truly defend that claim. I believe that only Apple can truly defend that claim. So, if your product is not necessarily going to stand out as being the one that they need because it stands out as being the best, you have to compete on another playing field.
So, I think that’s one thing that will resonate with leaders on the marketing side, on the sales side, on the CX side is we’ve got to stand out for something other than we make great products. CX is the only frontier for them to go to do that.
Mary: I’m going to play devil’s advocate here really quick, and I’m going to use an example that may be old to a lot of the listeners and viewers, especially the ones that have been following the show for a while. It’s not the first time I bring up this example, but it really does a good job and in. Creating a bit of dialog around this topic, which is, do you think that perhaps the like we were talking about earlier that the decision makers who aren’t convinced of the value of CX do you think it’s because of companies like Ryanair?
You know, Ryanair is notorious for being just the absolute worst. They are the worst. The experience is terrible. The purchasing is terrible. They treat you terribly. They’ve got very little regard or consideration for customers. In fact, I think a couple years in a row, they were elected as the worst brand in customer experience, yet when you look at their numbers, they’re soaring. They’re still making a killing, while other legacy airlines that focus on creating an incredible experience for customers are tanking.
What do you think?
Chris: So, your question goes straight into my sweet spot. OK. Awesome. And customer experience all comes back to brand. OK. And let’s talk about brand for a second. And in these conversations, I always do my definitions. OK, brand to me, is the promise that you are making to a customer. It is the series of promises that a company makes to its customers. Here’s what we say, we’re going to do, how we’re going to show up.
Customer experience is the strategy and the processes and the mechanisms you put in place to make sure that you keep that promise. OK. That’s the way that I look at it. Brand is promise. Customer experiences, keeping the promise. And what is Ryanair’s brand built around?
Mary: We’ll get you there, we’ll get you there.
Chris: They are. Their brand is still, they’re positioning themselves as the low-cost provider that is the brand positioning that they want to defend. I will argue that they deliver on their brand promise better through their customer experience. It’s more consistent. It’s authentic to who they are, rather than them trying to be multiple different things, right? And I’ll contrast them with Southwest Airlines.
Southwest Airlines. They started out as a low, low-cost provider, but they somehow found a way to build a brand around concepts like love, which are big, hard to tackle brand concepts. But they figured out a way to be economical and not just be economical we’re down and dirty, you know. We’re going to charge you to use the toilet kind of, you know, to use the bathroom in the plane kind of down and dirty. But we’re going to be super competitive, but we’re going to be fun too.
We’re going to tell jokes, we’re going to have smiles on our face, things like that. So, when I think about why Ryanair works, I truly believe it comes back to the experience that they deliver, aligns with who they want to be as a brand.
It’s not in conflict with it. It’s actually in perfect alignment with it. So, to any organization, your customer experience has to be built back to your brand and how your organization’s position yourself in the marketplace, because if it’s not, that’s actually worse.
So, hopefully that helps. But I’m very passionate about this idea of that brand and customer experience has to be linked. And I truly believe that customer experience should sit inside the marketing department with brand because those two need to be locked at the hip.
Yeah. And you know, as you’re saying this, I’m thinking here in my mind, it’s not to say that if Ryanair didn’t have some really fierce competitor enter the market, that was cost efficient, let’s say, but also provided a better experience, they would absolutely lose business share because once you have commoditized offers. The one thing that does help you stand out is customer experience, right? And I think the kind of the Southwest did, no? It all comes back to expectations. Right?
Ryanair has set expectations with their customers. You are going to get low fares and you’re not going to get much else. They’ve set that expectation. And once again, I will say they are there. They deliver that experience consistently.
They are consistent and they make a promise. And they back up that promise and they don’t overdeliver on the experience side, because that’s not what they’re selling. And if their prices went up significantly, guess what, now you could start to find yourself in, you talk to people that fly Delta regularly and they swear by the customer experience and you hear the I’m willing to pay more to fly Delta because the experience is so good, right? That’s not Ryanair’s strategy. So both can work. They just have to be true to who they want to be.
Mary: Yeah, I’m a diehard Delta fan to a point where I won’t travel if I can’t get on a Delta flight to go there. It’s that bad, but it’s because I really, truly, truly do believe in that experience and it’s what I want and I don’t want anything less.
And it’s funny because Ryanair, they will definitely tell you to your face that your experience is going to be bad. I think that they have these trial runs basically where they tell customers like, hey, we’re going to make you more uncomfortable than you already are, but then we’re going to charge you less do you want it? And people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah! I can basically stand in a plane as long as I get to the destination, right? So you’re absolutely right. It really is about that consistency and about following through with the brand promises.
Now let’s get into a little bit of the solutions that you provide organizations with when it comes to building that storytelling with the front-line employees. How do you find is the best way to evangelize these individuals as to the value of customer experience?
Chris: Well, I think that the, we believe that the best way to influence anybody is to listen to them right? We truly believe that if you want it, you want to change somebody’s attitudes or opinions. You don’t do it by talking, you do it by listening.
And you know, I mentioned earlier, you know, we have a tool called the Brand Transfer Study. And it is a feedback loop with your frontline teams. It’s not an employee engagement survey. It’s not, how happy are you with your workstation?
How do you feel about the stapler we gave you on your desk? It’s not that it truly is, what do you think of the brand that you represent? How do you feel about the experience that we deliver? What do you think customers want? How can we be better? Right? And ultimately, how can we serve you better? So I think that this idea of, it’s taking a little bit of a different mindset, but I think that we position to organizations as.
Sending out the communication, sending out the emails to fact sheets, all that kind of stuff. It’s not getting you where you want to go. Right? What if you tried it another way? And what if you tried by listening first? What if you tried by listening to the audience? And this came up in a conversation recently where I was talking to another individual and they said, looking at your employees as a channel, as a marketing channel, rather than a group that are just out there to, you know, do whatever you say.
And that really hit home with me because we believe that’s the approach that should be taken is look at them like a channel. So our brand transfer study is designed to do that. It is essentially a market research tool. Right.
It’s the same type of process you would use to go gather voice of customer data. We’re just gathering voice of the internal customer or voice of person, talking to the customer data and bringing that back to organization.
So, you know, the shorter answer is start by listening, right? Our solution? Start with listening. We start with data. We start by understanding our audience because if you want to move on from point A to point B, if you want to build consistency, you want to build that evangelism with your frontline teams.
The best way to do that is find out what they think the story is. Take the elements out of that that you can amplify, pump up that story, remind them of that story and tell the story back to them. And all that’s going to do is kind of inflate their sense as we talk about belief, confidence and pride. It’s going to inflate their sense of belief, confidence and pride in the brand. Yeah. So, I imagine that you get to listen more like the more information, the more intelligence.
Let’s say that that individual has on the customer, the richer the feedback that you’re able to provide the internal organization with. So, does your company tend to work better with companies that are high touch or have multiple points of transaction with customers?
It really depends. I mean, most of the audiences that we’re working with are either customer facing or support customer facing in some way shape or form like, you know, leadership and things like that. So, I don’t know that high touch makes it any more important.
I think that a lot of the organizations we work with are bigger ticket items, so there might not be as many touch points, but the stakes are very high in the touch points that you do have, right? You have to get the, you have to get it right, right?
You only get that one shot to make that connection with the consumer who might be spending several thousand dollars. So, I think it’s less about how high touch it is and more about how you know how big of an opportunity you have when those touch points arise.
And truly, every touchpoint, the stakes are high right for brands. Every single touchpoint. Those stakes are high. So, whether it’s a lot of touchpoints or just a few, it really doesn’t matter to us. We just want to make sure that when they happen, that the people who show up feel confident in the experience that they’re going to deliver.
Mary: Well, this has been really great. And I’ll tell you why, Chris. I think that you’re the first guest that comes on here and shines a little bit of light on this aspect of customer experience, which is in how much knowledge on the experience your frontline employees do have and speaking to them and finding a way to scale that can truly benefit customer experience as a whole. If our listeners and viewers want to hear more because this, you know, 35 minute segment here is definitely not enough to pick your brain entirely, how can people reach you? How can they hear more and learn more about what you and your company do?
Chris: Well, I’ll start by directing people to braintransferstudy.com, that’s where we have more information about, you know, I love how you’ve talked about this idea of scaling it, and that’s where we think that this is the difference between, you know, regular employee surveys and what we’re doing really on the brand and CX side is scaling that frontline feedback. So, the information about that process is at brandtransferstudy.com, so you can visit that website, our main company website is innerviewgroup.com and that is I N N E R V I E W.
We’re not a recruiting service or anything like that, but that’s, innerviewgroup.com The best way to find me and to see some of the other content that we put out is through LinkedIn. Look me up on LinkedIn. Chris Wallace with InnerView Group. Now here’s the key. There’s a lot of Chris Wallace is not in select company by having that name, but I’m in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, outside Philadelphia. So, when you look for Chris Wallace, look for the little InnerView, the little V symbol and look for Philadelphia, because that’s where you’ll find me, right?
Mary: It was great having you, folks. Chris Wallace with InnerView. Thank you so much for joining us today and to our listeners and viewers. We hope to see you next time.
That’s our show. Thanks for joining us. We hope we’ve brought you one step closer to leading through empathy. It’s our way of making the world a better place one business at a time.
Don’t forget to subscribe and hit the bell if you want to know as soon as we publish a new episode. Voices of CX is brought to you by Worthix. I’m Mary Drummond. This podcast is hosted and produced by me, edited and co-produced by Steve Berry. See you next week!